Monday, March 29, 2010

Is Atlanta falling behind Charlotte?

Atlanta's mayor, Kasim Reed, seems to think so. Reed says "Hotlanta" is in danger of losing ground to Charlotte on transportation, education, water and the arts, according to Atlanta Journal-Constitution blogger Jim Galloway.

Atlanta is still the capital of the South, says Reed, who concedes Charlotte has made gains — especially when it comes to high-speed rail.

Galloway writes:

Reed compared the situation to the early 1960s when Birmingham was the southern leader in commerce, but lost that title to Atlanta because of its attitude on civil rights. See: Alabama Gov. George Wallace and Birmingham police Chief Eugene “Bull” Connor.

Atlanta, the mayor noted, was more progressive. “Birmingham has never caught up since,” Reed said.


h/t CLT blog

111 comments:

WashuOtaku said...

I believe it was simply a warcry to get people in the city motivated to do more; afterall, people tend to be more motivated when they go against an advisary.

Charlotte is still years away to becoming the size and scale of Atlanta (assuming Atlanta stays the same continuing on).

Anonymous said...

What a worthless blog geez, talk about something relavent!!!

shawn said...

I enjoyed the article myself. The " Queen City" has put in a lot of work. We should be recognized we have a lot to be proud of.

Anonymous said...

This is a pretty dumb article, but that shold be expected when anything comes from CLTBlog. Its a source that panders to Charlotte rather than produce opinions and articles that could challenge our city and make it better. In terms of losing out to Charlotte, I highly doubt that. Granted Atlanta's transportation system is a mess, but culturally they are light years beyond Charlotte. They have multiple highly notable universities, museums, athletics,diverse economy (which we lack more than anything else on that list) and a culture and attitude that is their own. Frankly I am not even the biggest fan of that city but it does offer a great deal more. Anonymous I cant agree with you more either. I use to follow their blog but it has become rather rediculous and a waste of time. I understand they love their city, but to only point out the bright side of things and never challenge it only encourages stagnation.

Anonymous said...

So Sodom is passing Gomorrah?

Wow!

Anonymous said...

Where is this high speed rail? Oh, is it that stupid thing that takes 45 minutes to get from Pineville to uptown? Charlotte is about as close to taking over Atlanta as I am to dunking over Shaq.

Anonymous said...

BUt on that 45 minute ride you can be entertained by two black females cussing loudly and threatening each other...I see it almost daily.

GetOffYourAsphalt said...

Charlotte is falling behind Charlotte. Same as it never was.

Anonymous said...

Atlanta SUCKS!

Anonymous said...

Charlotte only WISHES it could be more like the ATL...Demographics dictate, and ATL wins, even only for the airport...but then its a really big city too...

Anonymous said...

Who cares, one's as black as the other.

Anonymous said...

Charlotte SUCKS!

Anonymous said...

I think Charlotte's transportation system is more of a mess than Atlanta's. Their roads are much better (regardless of the traffic) and MARTA is more extensive. Charlotte has a bunch of rural roads and highways that need to be upgraded and a 9 mile train line...

Anonymous said...

NYC, Boston, Washington, Portland, and ... Asheville are all cities that are more expensive than Charlotte. Do you think Asheville is worried about Charlotte.

Charlotte is so obsessed with other places and can't create an identity of its own.

Charlotte a cheap alternative to someplace better.

Anonymous said...

If everyone wants Charlotte to be like Atlanta, why not move to Atlanta. Stop trying to emulate other cities and be your own city.

Ed Hardy said...

Does Atlanta have an Epicentre? I didn't think so. Atlanta Sucks

Anonymous said...

Charlotte seems to attract people who want to live in a small city and they don't want it to grow any bigger. All of the people from Charlotte that hate Atlanta aren't "big city people" anyways.

Atlanta attracts people who want to be in a big city/metro and enjoy the continued growth and urbanization of the city and its suburbs.

Anonymous said...

How is Atlanta falling behind Charlotte? Atlanta's growth (actual number of people who move there) has always been more than double Charlotte's. According to the US Census estimates, Charlotte added 39,000 people in 2009 and Atlanta added 89,000. In years past, Charlotte averaged 50-60,000 people a year and Atlanta averaged 120,000-150,000 people a year. Due to the recession, growth has slowed but Atlanta's is still more than twice Charlotte's.

Anonymous said...

I'd rather be more like Atlanta than like Birmingham, Jacksonville or Spartanburg.

Anonymous said...

Atlanta has Atlantic Station, which is larger than the Epicentre with actual shopping too. Every decent sized city has an "Epicentre" like development. Charlotte isn't that special, sorry.

Anonymous said...

Charlotte has 13% unemployment. Does Atlanta have that today?

Airport: Advantage Atl

Sports: Advantage ATl that has pro baseball and big time college basketball and football too. Does Charlotte? Nope

Identity: Atlanta is the capital of the South, and has been for decades. Charlotte is the capital of NASCAR, and I'm sure that the other 49 states will flock to the upcoming NASCAR Hall of Fame.
But don't count on it.

Anonymous said...

There is not enough building, people, or culture that will ever catch Charlotte up to Atlanta!

Anonymous said...

As a young professional, I am leaving Charlotte for Atlanta. I can't even go to graduate school in Charlotte because there isn't a college (or one I would consider going to) in Charlotte that has the MBA degree I am pursuing. Atlanta has many highly regarded universities and they will continue to attract young people and businesses to Atlanta. UNCC is really all Charlotte has, and the lack of major universities is going to hurt Charlotte in terms of attracting more young people. For families and affordable living, Charlotte is fine, but that's about it. It is NOT an exciting, cosmopolitan city.

Anonymous said...

Atlanta hosted the Olympics 20 years ago. If Charlotte hosted the Olympics 20 years from now, it would take another bank'esque wave of growth.

Anonymous said...

From what I hear, Charlotte has more Olive Gardens.....but Atlanta can claim more Chilis AND Red Lobsters. So if Charlotte really wants to get Atlanta's goat, they should give a tax incentive to TGIFridays to open three more locations.

Geez people. Both cities suck. Theyre like living in a big mall.

Anonymous said...

I'm an Atlanta native, but Charlotte is my adopted home. I didn't realize there was a competition, but Charlotte does lag behind Atlanta as far as entertainment, transportation, & shopping venues. However, Charlotte is cleaner and more picturesque. One is not superior to the other. It depends on what you're looking for.

Anonymous said...

Before I even start....go ahead and call me a racist instead of listening to me. It will make you feel better.

Atlanta's biggest problem is white flight. White's fled the city to get to the burbs by droves over the last two decades. The result is a population inside the city that is more reliant on city services. The only thing keeping Atlanta going is the influx of suburbanites coming in the city for sports and entertainment.

Charlotte has embraced the model and will get the same results. The positive for Charlotte is that the black population here is more professional and less liklely to cuddle up to the government for a free ride. But those that have a taste of the free ride will only continue to pull the city down.

Again...you an accept it as the truth or get all whiney and call me a racist. I could care less. Truth hurts.

Anonymous said...

Charlotte vs Atlanta?

That's like saying who is the better basketball team, North Dakota or Maine!

Anonymous said...

I've lived in both cities. Young and single, Atlanta wins hands down. Raising a family, Charlotte wins by a nose. But Charlotte wins the race for city councilmen who blame herpes on racial factors. Restaurants, (recently) a near draw, but Atlanta has more ethnic variety. Transportation, Charlotte has a lot less hassle since it's smaller. Foam-at-the-mouth religious types, Charlotte takes the title. "20 miles outside the city limit," Charlotte wins. Rural Georgia, alas, is Georgia. Friendliness to newcomers, I give to Atlanta. Jut my opinion....

Anonymous said...

Charlotte has the Charlotte School of Law. For any young professional to say that Charlotte doesn't offer anything as good as an MBA, I have to say that a JD is a much better degree

Anonymous said...

president obama loves charlotte ..not Atlanta...sorry Atlanta

Anonymous said...

How could Charlotte possibly be catching up on Atlanta when Wachovia has become WellsFargo and the HQ in San Fran. And BofA is barely here. I read where new CEO Moynihan just "rented" an apartment here to show his committment to Charlotte. Yeah thanks. That should answer any concerns.

Anonymous said...

The Charlotte School of Law? First of all, AHAHAHAHA to that school and second, not everyone wants to get their law degree!

Anonymous said...

Charlotte is OK, but it is surrounded by redneck wastelands (Concord, Gastonia, Rock Hill, Monroe).

Anonymous said...

To people who have lived in Atlanta.

Is it as cliquey and pretentious as Charlotte? Is everything there exclussive? Do people think they are all that and try to prove it?

I hate that about this place, never seen anything like it before, I've never been to South Beach or LA though.

Anonymous said...

Atlanta is about 3-4 times bigger and seriously this is not even close but than again Atlanta has more history than any city in America. They have the Cyclorama museum plus the massive zoo, downtown Atlanta Braves where the 1996 Olympics were held.
The Georgia Dome downtown with the Falcons and Hawks arena, and dont forget the world famous Varsity.

You have the CocaCola downtown location hige light display and CNN that is massive. The old Fox Theater is historical where Gone With The Wind and all the cast including Clark Gable, Vivian Leigh and Seltznick attended in 1939 when the city population was 700,000.

Georgia Tech is downtown with its football history and a lot of tall skyscrapers.

You also have Stone Mountain with the massive carved statues and the Buckhead District.

Also Margaet Mitchell and Gone With The Wind defines historic Atlanta as the most popular book and movie ever made in Hollywood.
Then there is the Underground ...

The situation is Charlotte has destroyed its history but Atlanta has preserved it all.

Charlotte has way too many ugly Queen statues and some idiot 4 corner statue at the square that is mmeaningless and looks dumb.

Charlotte needs to rip down the Queen crapola and the dumb 4 statues at the square. The city is much more lib and pc than Atlanta.

Anonymous said...

"Atlanta has more history than any city in America"

You're kidding right? Get out much?

Anonymous said...

What is Atlanta jealous of the massive lay-offs and cut-backs in the library, parks, and schools? I don't thinkk they have a ting to worry about.

Ghoul said...

Old wrestler vs old wrestler: Charlotte has Ric Flair, Atlanta has Abdullah the Butcher, I think Abdullah could take him now.

Anonymous said...

Atlanta has the big problems of a big city and none of the perks. At least Charlotte is an affordable and comfortable place to live with alot to do.

Anonymous said...

If you are white Atlanta is not for you.

Anonymous said...

Charlotte is the best city to live in the USA.

Anonymous said...

If you are white, Charlotte is almost not for you.

Anonymous said...

Go Panthers!

Anonymous said...

The funny thing is no one lives in Atlanta. Everyone lives outside the city. You could live 45 minutes away and people still say the live in Atlanta. That's like living in Salisbury and saying you live in Charlotte. That makes no sense.

Anonymous said...

I hope Charlotte never becomes like Atlanta, if you've ever lived there you will know what I'm talking about!

Anonymous said...

More people than ever live in Atlanta city limits (at least 500,000 now) and the population continues to grow. In recent census estimates, Fulton County added more people than any of the other surrounding counties, which means more people are choosing to live closer to or IN Atlanta rather than farther out.

Atlanta is an awesome city and JUST AS AFFORDABLE AS CHARLOTTE and has a lot more to offer for the money.

Anonymous said...

"Is it as cliquey and pretentious as Charlotte? Is everything there exclussive? Do people think they are all that and try to prove it?

I hate that about this place, never seen anything like it before, I've never been to South Beach or LA though."

Nope, Atlanta is a lot friendlier, laid back, and open minded. The funny part is, there is a hell of a lot more wealth in Atlanta and you see less of the pretentious crap that you see in Charlotte. Outside of Hollywood/Beverly Hills, LA is a lot more laid back too.

Sometimes you just have to remind people that they live in CHARLOTTE...

Anonymous said...

Charlotte has the biggest inferiority complex of any city in the country...

Anonymous said...

Who cares? This country is going down the toilet anyways.

Anonymous said...

Charlotte is what it is. It is a great mid size city period. Atlanta is what it is. It is a bigger city that is just OK.

Anonymous said...

Why does it matter?

Anonymous said...

It doesn't matter.

Anonymous said...

I have lived in many cities and moving to Atlanta within the next year. I would NEVER ever tell anyone to move to Charlotte. It has been a nightmare.

Anonymous said...

"I have lived in many cities and moving to Atlanta within the next year. I would NEVER ever tell anyone to move to Charlotte. It has been a nightmare."

Agreed. I'm doing the same thing (moving to Atlanta).

Anonymous said...

Goodbye!

Anonymous said...

So many haters. It's what you make of a place. I'm always amazed how many people hate living some place, but when you ask them what do they do they say nothing. Maybe some of the haters need to take a good lokk at themselves. And they might find that the problem isn't where they are living but the problem lies within themselves.

Anonymous said...

Oh pullease.
You both SUCK!

signed Brooklyn

Anonymous said...

If you can't find fun things to do in Charlotte you probably are a very boring person.

Anonymous said...

Charlotte is a great place to live.

westcoastbound said...

Charlotte is a great place to live..not a great place to live life.

westcoastbound said...

Charlotte is a great place to live..but not a great place to live life.

Anonymous said...

Comparing Charlotte with Atlanta is like comparing Atlanta with Singapore, Chicago, or Toronto. They are both out of their leagues.
Atlanta is a world class city only when compared with others in the Southeast.

Anonymous said...

The point of the matter is that you shouldnt have to go looking for things to do. A truly great city, which neither Atlanta nor Charlotte are (Atlanta is much closer to it though) provides its citizens with things to do that is almost effortless. Things that one can just stumble upon. Granted we have some good bars and restaurants (good, not great). But other then that everything else we have is a cheap knock off of other cities (NoDA, Fillmore,) or a chain. Which goes back to the identity crisis that so many people have called out already. To find something even mildly entertaining, outside of a bar, you truly do have to go searching for it. We are not the type of city that allows you to get out on the streets and randomly find great things to do. And this has nothing to do with the city size because comparable (and all smaller) cities create these opportunities, Austin, Portland, Boston, Charlottesville, Minneapolis. These are all cities that have unique character and a variety of opportunities to engage in a wide array of activities. If you believe that this city dosent have a problem in entertaining its people then ask the city why they were just hosting a party in South End that was aimed at convincing its young residents not to leave Charlotte.

Anonymous said...

"ask the city why they were just hosting a party in South End that was aimed at convincing its young residents not to leave Charlotte."

More info on this please! and agree with you say. Asheville and Winston-Salem have many of these experiences that people can enjoy. In Charlotte everything revolves around the almighty $$$. Minneapolis is a gem.

Anonymous said...

Say what you want. But the QC has the prettiest women in the South.

Anonymous said...

If there is something that this city doesn't have then start your own business. Instead of complaining about the lack of things to do, go out and do something by starting your own business. Stop waiting for other people to start something just do it.

Anonymous said...

A bunch of whiny little brats on this blog.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 9:59
They have hosted a handful of "pink slip parties" but they have been oriented around young professionals and rather than networking they have been trying to talk up all the amenities that the city has to offer. City officials have been "accidentally" quoted a few times about their concerns that all of the young professionals are going to leave for Atlanta and Raleigh since they have all the jobs now.

Anonymous said...

Asheville is not a city maybe a hippie community, but that is it. That has to be one of the most over-rated places I have ever been. The place stinks.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 10:05
It would be a great idea to start your own business to provide missing services. The problem is that Charlotte has the most unfriendly business taxes in the state to allow that to happen.

Anonymous said...

No place in the USA is safe from the ravages of inflation. Get prepared folks it's going to be a long ride.

Anonymous said...

Anon 10:10 I agree I would love to our city leaders realize this point.

Anonymous said...

Dream on, Dream on, Dream until your dream comes true.

Anonymous said...

If some of you actually traveled more, you would realize that Charlotte is a very unfulfilling place to live. It might be a nice place to live for some in the stage of life that they are in, but for the most part it's very bland.

Anonymous said...

All the people in Charlotte who hate Atlanta probably:

1) Have never been
2) Just drove through it and got stuck in traffic
3) Don't like big cities

Anonymous said...

That's a nice picture of Atlanta. If it was Charlotte, there would be old, rusty interchanges in the foreground. Atlanta might have a lot of traffic, but there roads are way better. None of the interchanges around Uptown have been updated since they were built many many years ago. Oh, and our highway lights don't work either.

Anonymous said...

Is Atlanta really worried about our 9 mile light rail line when they have an almost 50 mile heavy rail line that is actually in the top 10 for ridership in the country??? (I know it's hard to believe and yes, MARTA needs to be expanded, but it really is in the top 10)

Anonymous said...

Atlanta is furthur south than Charlotte. They can't have high speed rail until cities north of it do. I have faith that leaders in Georgia will wake up and see the light on rail, eventually...

Anonymous said...

The simple answer to this question is... NO.

Anonymous said...

They have hosted a handful of "pink slip parties"

A friend of mine was going to make a short film about McCrory running around a neighborhood chasing UHauls on their way out of town.

Anonymous said...

A friend of mine was going to make a short film about McCrory running around a neighborhood chasing UHauls on their way out of town

LMFAO...I would have paid good money to see that. Hey I would love to be the one driving the truck at full speed

Anonymous said...

A friend of mine was going to make a short film about McCrory running around a neighborhood chasing UHauls on their way out of town

LMFAO...I would have paid good money to see that. Hey I would love to be the one driving the truck at full speed

Derrick said...

"PEOPLE" do your research I have lived in Atlanta! The City of Charlotte is physically larger than Atlanta. Within the city limits of Atlanta its a little over 400,000 thousand Charlotte maybe knocking on 700 to 800,000 Thousand (we will see after all the Census information is compiled)This area is really growing the only notable differeces between the two Cities is 1. Atlanta has a little better Transportation system in place. 2. The Atlanta metro has 4.5 to 5 million residents while Charlotte metro has 1.8 to 2 million residents. So after you research ask.com and wikipedia.org you will see that Charlotte is not that far off base from Atlanta.

Anonymous said...

You could flood Uptown with salt water and you would have "Jersey Shore"

Anonymous said...

Charlotte's population "size" is misleading. Because the "city limits" grow each month. Folk tha live 2 minutes from Concord Mills or SC say they live in Charlotte. Really?

Secondly, Charlotte talks often about "being bigger than Raleigh" despite having fewer jobs, higher crime, more murders, poorer schools, more layoffs, less profitable companies, and less tourest.

But cringes when Atlanta cites being larger than it is. With more jobs and more to do, large airport, more pro sports, more visitors, and THE south capital.

Charlotte, stop being 2-faced, which is telling Raleigh how large you are, but defending being smaller than the Atl.

Anonymous said...

If you're a white, conservative, Christian soccer mom, or married to one, Charlotte is for you. Even Ned Flanders would find this place boring.

Anonymous said...

Atlanta will NEVER fall behind Charlotte, just as long as we have titles on our major newspaper like this! Do you think AJC would ever have such a hilarious title on there front page. Come on get real, this has got to be a joke.

Anonymous said...

11:32 p.m.
LOL
It's Charlotte's feeling of self-doubt, lack of self worth when the banks are no longer to brag about, can't evan keep open library complex, Dukes of Hazzard reputation of NASCAR, used to be boom town, not even most influential city in its own state, and lack of an identity crisis.

Anonymous said...

And Charlotte wants to be like Atlanta because.....???

Yeah---that's what I thought!

Anonymous said...

Well as a native Charlottean...who cares..its like a person comparing how much comfortable their jeans were when they were 40lbs lighter..Go for whatever floats your boat or your fat a#@ lol

Anonymous said...

Derrick youre an idiot 5 million people vs. 2 million is a huge difference. Saying that we arent that far off is like saying a person weighting 150 is close to someone weighing 320. The difference is more than half. Here is a thought Observer and to CLT Blog, why dont you put up some stories that dont feed this citie's insecurity and put up some stories that could help make this a better place.

Anonymous said...

After moving from suburban Denver and living for a few yrs off Fairview we got to the point where we finally couldnt stomach how redneck Charlotte was where even blacks and mexicans were more redneck than whites. Even the transplants from Ohio, NY, PA and Chicago were redneck watching NASCAR wolfing down fried chicken and sweet tea in some hole in the wall places. The local newspaper is also redneck. What a waste.
We finally moved across the line to SC to the lake. Its better but we may return to the Atlanta burbs.
Whats up with this place? Geesh.

Anonymous said...

What a difference an economic downturn makes. When Charlotte was on its growth spurt, all newcomers loved it. Fresh, exciting, green, full of possibilities. Now, more than two years into 10+% unemployment, Charlottes a dump with nothing to do.

Anonymous said...

Why would anyone want to be like a city that is 61% black?

Anonymous said...

Atlanta is doomed

Anonymous said...

For those posting that hate Charlotte - you are free to leave at anytime. Seriously. I will help you pack.

Eastwood said...

The people who are talking down on Charlotte, usually aren't from here. Nobody asked you to come here. And who crowned Atlanta the King of the South? Atlanta is bigger but it is also overrated. Check the stats Charlotte has a LARGER population within the city limits than Atlanta. Also Charlotte is physically bigger in size.

Eastwood said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

incestous rednecks all of them

Stan said...

Apples to oranges, there is no comparison, Charlotte is still a sleep southern town, where Atlanta is an urban southern town with world class eminities, Atlanta attracts people from all over the country. Atlanta is a great place for a single man with cash and good party town but it is very cliques, Glady Knight had a song out year ago called everybody wants to be bousey bousey, High class folks and she is right Atanta is very pretensious.

Anonymous said...

Metro-Atlanta Combined Statistical Area has 6 million and one of the fastest growing metro areas in the world. It is the world headquarters for Delta Airlines, Coke, AT&T, Home Depot and UPS. More than 75% of the Fortune 500 corps have a presense in Metro-Atlanta.
Atlanta Hartsfield airport is the busiest in the world.

And they say the south would never rise? The south has not only arisen but overtaken the rest. Atlanta is The King.

Anonymous said...

I will Charlotte hands down over many other places in this country.

Anonymous said...

If you can't find fun things to do in Charlotte, you probably are a miserable person to be around. So do the QC a favor and leave.

Anonymous said...

I have lived for several years in NYC, a few yrs in ATL, and Charlotte the past 10 yrs. I started college in ATL. Finished college and started my career in NYC. Settled down in Charlotte which is now home.
Atlanta is far far more pretentous than Charlotte. Charlotte will never be like Atlanta. The thing i like about Charlotte is it's not too big and not too small either.I could never imagine living in a place like Charlotte when in my 20,s. But now at 41 its a perfect fit for me.

Anonymous said...

I don't think the EARLY attitudes about Civil Rights (Wallace/Bull Connor)killed Birmingham.

Birmingham thrived back then.

It was the SUCCESS of Civil Rights that killed Birmingham.

Birmingham is almost entirely black and has been run by incompetent blacks for decades.

Charlotte needs to worry about becoming another Birmingham, not another Atlanta.

Anonymous said...

Charlotte has still not matured as a city. Atlanta has matured. i had a friend who moved to ATL in 77 and then moved to Charlotte in 07 and he says that Charlotte is "eerily" similar today like Atlanta 30 yrs ago. Charlotte in 20 or 30 yrs will be a big major city like ATL. But the culture is different. Charlotte's demographis and politics are similar to Orange county in California whereas ATL's is more like NYC.

Anonymous said...

every time I look on one of these things I see some racists shit towards black people. The one BITCH saying "who would want to live in a city that is 61% black" Mother fucker I don't always desire living in a city that is like 78% percent white but I accept it because I am not a racist piece of shit like you are. I am tired of seeing racists shit towards black people on this shit. FUCK ALL YOU RACIST PIECES OF TRASH, AND GO TO HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Anonymous said...

When are you people ever going to wake up? You people are praising a city or cities that is controlled by Big Corporate Masters who only care about making slaves out of you, making money off of you, and keeping you ignorant. You people are sheeps! Same goes with the politicians! You as Americans, will never learn! Corporations will always beat you out of everything!

Anonymous said...

I havr been to both however wasn't too impressed with either one. They are both SMALL with about 6 buildings total in each. Both were slower than they were hyped up to be. Southern cities are very much diffrent then other cities in this country. I was told by some guy when visiting Atlanta that it was the New York of the south...my reply you thinks so...then you have no idea and it's obvious you have never been.....

Anonymous said...

YES IM A BLACK NORTHERENER FROM BOSTON. TO ME CHARLOTTE IS A MUCH BETTER PLACE THAN ATLANTA. ATLANTA IS FULL OF UNBEARABLE IGNORANCE AND DISEASE. IN CHARLOTTE I WAS IMPRESSED WITH THE HOSPITALITY OF THE WHITE PEOPLE TOWARDS BLACKS. CHARLOTTE HAS A PRETTIER SKYLINE AND HOTTER CLEANER CHICKS WITH BETTER SMARTS. ATL IS GARBAGE!