Thursday, August 20, 2009

Read the health care bills

Health care debate
A woman in the audience yells at Rep. G.K. Butterfield, D-N.C., at a health care forum in Rocky Mount on Aug. 11. (Chuck Liddy/Raleigh News & Observer)

Lots of e-mails are going around purporting to offer highlights of the health care legislation working its way through Congress. But not all the claims in those e-mails are backed up in the bills.

Read the Tri-Committee House health care bill here.
Senate version is here.

(Note that the legislation is still in Congress, so it's expected to change as lawmakers negotiate for votes.)

Some points of note from the draft measure:
  • On illegal immigrants: "No federal payment for undocumented aliens. Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States." (Page 143)
  • On automatic enrollment in Medicaid: A Medicaid-eligible individual who "has not elected to enroll in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan" will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. (Page 102)
  • On advance care planning: "A consultation under this subsection may include the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining treatment or a similar order." (Section 1233, Pages 424-434)
What's your take on the proposed health care overhaul?


Anonymous said...

It is simply undeniably
for the proponents of this measure to continue trying to ram this thing through against the will of the majority of the people.

The reason this idea has floated around so long, decades, without being enacted is that the people simply do not want it. Last time I checked politicians worked for us, not the other way around. They should stop leaf blowing rhetoric and listen.

Yes there is an issue with the health care system, massive bills that the lawmakers themselves can not understand without multiple lawyers, and days on end to read, and admitting they still would not understand it, IS NOT THE ANSWER.

The likes of frank and pelosi
belittling those that disagree with their social justice ideals on this and other matters just proves how disconnected from the CITIZENS, and constituents it says everything. Changing the name of the 'program' midstream to effect a hardsell, says everything you need to know about obama. They all need to go.

Trusting them, and the liberal dems is like trusting a roll of wet toilet paper to do its job as effectively and efficiently as intended.

Government is for oversight not control.

Dump the "bill", start over addressing: FIXING medicare/caid, tort, interstate markets, fiscal efficiency, and corruption.

And lastly publicly debate the FINAL draft of this fiasco, so everyone knows what they are yapping about and let the PEOPLE decide.

Anonymous said...

It is simply un-American that the incredibly stupid minority wants to ensure continued record profits for insurance companies and lack of coverage for working people. STOP believing the lies told on conservative radio and actually do a little research. NOBODY wants to kill your grandma, there are NO death boards. The Obama plan is NOT radical enough!!!!! It starts out asking for too little and will give NOTHING to anyone EXCEPT insurance companies and HMO's before it is done. Moron.

Anonymous said...


Mary said...

The majority of us want something major done to health care. The reason something hasn't been done, and the reason if there isn't a meaningful change, is because most Americans can't think for themselves.

JParsons said...

Bills do not have page numbers. This has been pointed out in numerous sites. Read the sections involved. Yes, it's confusing, but read it for yourself. Don't rely on someone else to do the work.

Anonymous said...

There's really nothing "broken" about our healthcare system nor with health insurance. There IS no monolithic "Big Healthcare": that bogeyman is routinely dragged out to support regulation and is a complete fiction. Consider this: the plans before congress contemplate a single Federal standard of coverage. At the moment there are over 1,500 insurance plans available. Which one do YOU think gives you the broader lattitude of choice: one or 1,500? government has never expanded your choices in ANYTHING: it simply is not what they do.

Think they'll make it cheaper? HOW? Unless they intend to enslave healthcare workers, they will continue to have to be paid and the healthcare consumer will -and should- pay them. Health insurance companies make a profit? OF COURSE they do: that's why they continue to offer a broad array of plans: to satisfy the consumer who can take his dollars where ever he cares to. And in fact there are LOTS of mutual insurance companies that are owned by the policy holders and return any profits to them.

You need a bunch of politicians making your choices for you like you need a hole in your head.

Larry said...

Funny how the H1N1 or as it was called Swine Flu Virus is getting worse.

Just when we are discussing a national takeover of our Health Care.

I am not one of those people who look at things from a conspiracy standpoint but.....

Was it not funny that our banks had a run on them back in Sept, 2008 from foreign investors all on the same day. Add in our many US based rich people who transferred money overseas that day. Almost like it was a plan to make us jerk into a bad economic condition.

I am sure it being that close to the election was not the reason?????

Another funny thing why is our stimulus money mainly going to cover expensive road paving projects that were already scheduled and allowing the States, Cities and anyone else with their hand out to use the money to shore up their budgets.

Again not the type of person to worry, just wondering.

And I hear about people dying in the War today. A few months ago you could not watch TV, or read printed media, without people yelling about how bad the war was and how we wanted out TODAY! I will not even start with those poor innocents still being held down in Guantanamo.

Where are these people who were upset about this war and these people being held? Did the government take them away?

Again not a conspiracy person but they do seem to have vanished?

Vanished just like the credibility of our Elected Officials. I know they had very little to begin with but now they are running on fumes.


Anonymous said...

Like the government does a good job now managing things and people want to let them into healthcare deeper! Are they nuts? Those who feel it is a minority challenging the Obama plan need to ask there representatives if they actually READ the plan, maybe you should read it as well fools.

Anonymous said...

"At the moment there are over 1,500 insurance plans available. Which one do YOU think gives you the broader lattitude of choice: one or 1,500?" - This is ignorant and just plain dumb. My insurance that I have through my employer would not change. What would change is people who don't have or can't have insurance can get insurance. And I don't want to hear about fair.
I have a chronic illness despite eating healthy, exercising everyday, and leading a healthy lifestyle. I recently went two major operations. If it weren't for my job, or I lost my job while on disability because I was no longer covered by fmla, or if I wanted to go to work for myself I would not be able to get insurance because insurance companies interested only in a profit would deny me coverage. And I'm not the only person in this world who has gotten sick. So don't talk about choice. If you get sick in this country and don't have insurance you have less options than the rest of the world.

Anonymous said...

I wish these obstructionist birthers would stop telling people to "read the bill". Most of them don't even "read the labels" on the food that they ram down their throats and killing them quicker than anything in the healthcare bill.

Rick said...

No federal payment for undocumented aliens. Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.

This is meaningless without hard and fast rules for actually identifying illegals as part of the process. We give illegals medical care today in hospital ERs, and hospitals can't ask immigration status. The State wants to give illegals in-state tuition for college which is a massive public subsidy. Driver's licenses are easy to come by for illegals. Illegals get public school, free and reduced lunch and can even get Medicaid today in some instances. They get countless subsidies that they aren't supposed to get because regulatory agencies don't allow their identification. Government insurance will be no different.

A Medicaid-eligible individual who "has not elected to enroll in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan" will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid.

Do this today without changing anything else and a quarter of the uninsured population goes away. The Real Uninsured

Then remove the 10% that make over 95K per year per the US Census and HHS department. They should cover themselves and won't get any help in this reform anyway.

Finally, make it easier for others to buy insurance by reducing interstate restrictions and expanding grace periods and subsidies for COBRA for the unemployed. Together, these would go a long, long way to reducing the uninsured without a radical takeover of the health care industry.

A consultation under this subsection may include the formulation of an order regarding life sustaining treatment or a similar order.

Think living wills and health care power of attorney documents. Everyone should have these as a matter of personal responsibility, but the government should not be pushing them on anyone.

Unfortunately, the blog author didn't even touch on how this will be paid for under HR 3200.

Half of it comes from $500B in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid budgets through "savings" that will be gained. If these two systems are so poorly run that there is a half trillion dollars in waste, why should we have any faith a new government health care system will be any better? Simply because Mr. Obama says so?

The other half of the bill is paid with tax increases on small business and the wealthy - the two main drivers of job growth. That makes a lot of sense with unemployment heading towards double digits.

toomuchgovernment said...

Why don’t you look at other countries that have socialized medicine and see just how long the lines to get care are and how care is rationed. In England on average it is 25 weeks to get diagnostic treatment for Cancer. People die in waiting lines. Is this what you want here? The tax to pay for this substandard care is 19%!
This IS NOT about ‘providing high quality healthcare’ (as we have now) to all, this is about getting RID of the highquality healthcare we have and giving a minimal standard to everyone without YOUR physician being in control and with government bureaucrats telling your physician what he/she can do for you based solely on one thing—COST. If treatment is expensive, you don’t get it. This is NOT about the same quality healthcare, delivered in the same manner as we have now and it being free! This is about a great-big-ole GOVERNMENT RUN HMO. I have seen comments about HMO’s and most people appear NOT to like them, so I am surprised that anyone would support an HMO that was run by an entity with no-watchdog over it—i.e. THE GOVERNMENT—and if there was a problem- there would be no one to sue! BO could care less about the quality of care you get as, he congress, czars, et all will NOT be under this plan? Why Because it is inferior quality. They want nothing to do with this garbage. They see 77 million baby boomers, who are going to stress Medicare and are thinking, 'hum....if we can kill off some of this group by not allowing them expensive care, then we can save a boatload of money.' The person who thinks he should rule the world—Barack Obama—this healthcare is just a feather in his cap toward being the ruler of the world! Right after this comes education…ENERGY, HEALTHCARE and EDUCATION are the first on his list. He got banks and car companies by default.
Do some research people as it is NOT what it appears to be. There is NO ‘free ride’ as there is NO free ride with anything!
First of all, healthcare should be taken out of the ‘entitlement mentatlity.‘ Healthcare is NOT a right it is a priviledge. Read the Constitution. For someone to get something for free, someone else has to go to work and earn money for someone else to get something for free. Right now in England one can NOT even get a cortizone shot as Cortizone shots have been removed from the ‘approved list’ due to cost. What if that were you that needed Avastatin or Herpecin and couldn’t get it because of some ole government panel that determined based on your age and ability to ‘contribute to society' and not paying enough taxes you were going to be denied? This IS reality, we are not just giving out bandaids for free. We are not talking about stitching up someone's leg, we are taking major, catastrophic issues and how to get the best treatment. Then what? Just ‘take a pill’ as BO wants people to do and die?...Called rationing of healthcare. People between ages 15-40 are the people who get priority in the heathcare queue. Read Zeke Emanuel’s paper on this as he IS the healthcare CZAR! It is HE that would be making the decisions on YOUR care, NOT YOUR physician! Government run panel = Government run HMO! See this for WHAT IT IS BEFORE its too late!
Whats next, a new mercedes for you as that is the next ‘right’ you liberals believe you are entitled to? This WAS tried with 'affordable housing for all' and see where thats got us now?
The United States was founded on the principle of CAPITALISM. What you liberal democrats are doing is trying to change the constitution and take my right to have a choice in what I want, a choice in what I bust my butt for and re-distribute what I have earned to those who chose not to work as hard as I do, but believe they are entitled to what I earn and then taking away MY right to chose—healthcare included.
Open up your mind and see this healthcare issue for what it is as you are incorrect IF you believe most of America is going to sit idly by and allow this to happen.

Anonymous said...

It would cost less to clean up the current health care system by putting a few checks and balances in place to monitor the system. By fixing the current system, it will lead to a snowball effect of having to also overhaul Medicare, Medicaid, Welfare and Illegal Immigration. Sounds like a win-win all the way around, but our government is famous for putting programs into place without leadership or oversight, so I guess my idea is moot. So much for common sense thinking.

Richard said...

I can't understand why so many with insurance want to stop those without? With reform, If you have insurance you can keep it. Reform helps those of us who cannot get insurance or those who cannot afford insurance due to pre existing conditions. The right wants to stop this plan only because they want Obama to fail. Spreading lies and half truths is how they accomplish this. People, read the bill, listen to something other than hate radio. Make up your on mind. Lets pass health care reform. Please.

Anonymous said...

Most of your comments are so typical of Southern racist rednecks - YOU REALLY ARE STUPID AND OBVIOUSLY TOO TRIFLING TO READ!!! IT'S EASIER TO YELL AND SCREAM!!

Anonymous said...

What do we do when our kids have temper tantrums? We ignore them. Then, when the storm has passed, we address the problem. The media needs to do the same with these adult children who are having their hissy fits at town meetings. They need to be ignored so the rest of us adults can ask questions and get the information we came for. Every town meeting should have chairs in the corners where people can sit in time out until they are able to control themselves and act like grown ups who treat others- even the ones they disagree with - with respect. If time out doesn't work, they should get a spanking.

Anonymous said...

Richard, its people like you who 'believe' what BO and company are saying that will allow this crap to pass. There is NO entity that can compete with federal government. The cost WILL Be much lower and people will flock to 'something cheaper' regardless of the quality as no one ever believes it will be them who need insurance.
That massive 'sucking effect' will cause the private insurance companies not to be able to remain in business and thus cease. Yes, Mr Spin-meister, BO and company gave 'you a choice and 'you chose.' He knows by giving this choice will happen and it is manipulation on his part. He IS for single payor, universal coverage. Look back at his campaign speeches, what he has said to date.
Apparently you do not know how insurance works and how government run healthcare WILL NOT be competition, it will drive private insurance companies OUT OF BUSINESS and you will be then STUCK with single payor. And, once they are gone, they are gone, never to return while people will say, 'well, no one told me that would happen.' YES THEY DID!

Minus3 said...

JParsons says that "bills do not have page numbers". Thats strange, i just hit the link on this article to read the bill and what do I find at the top of every page???.....hmm, a page number.

Leonard said...

We all know that the Republicans do not have any viable alternatives to any of america problems! That is why they are using lies and scare tactics to try and kill anything that has a Democratic stamp on it!
Look at these blog posts and you can not denie that they are using scare tactics!

Mary said...

Have a look at How Health Insurance Companies Mislead the Public.

Anonymous said...

Pulling the plug on Grandma

Anonymous said...

Reform needs to start with the cost of healthCARE, not just the cost of health insurance. My husband had a colonscopy last month and was at Mercy Hospital for about 4 hours. The bill from the hospital was $7400 and the bill from the doctor was $3200. That is more than $10k for 4 hours. Our insurance paid for all but $1800, which we now owe. If these costs weren't so high, everyone and their brother wouldn't NEED health insurance. Why should we just pay to insure more people and pay these exorbitant costs out of taxpayer money? So I would then be paying for my own insurance, and for those on Medicaid, Medicare, and all those on the "public" option? Where does it end? While going through treatment for cancer, I had a shot every other week before chemo that cost $5,000.$5k for ONE SHOT. It is ridiculous. Do something about those costs before you just find another way and another person to keep paying for them.

Anonymous said...

Where were all of the phony patriots when Bush gave the store away to the drug companies? And when he manufactured lies to push a war in Iraq to prove to Daddy he had grown a pair? And where were you guys when Tom DeLay(DeLie?), was rearranging congressional districts to rig elections? And now the truth is emerging about how FOX and Rush keep you guys foaming at the mouth with more made-up lies. We elected Democrats to do a job. They will do it. If you don't like Socialism, don't use Public Schools, Public Streets, College aid, Social Security, Medicare, Public Libraries, Unemployment Compensation, etc. You will be free to keep your high deductible, overpriced, private health insurance. BTW, Canadians and Britons are free to buy private insurance too. Quit being such hypocrites. You guys absolutely kill me. You have put yourselves in the position of being used by FOX, Rush, Hannity, and all the other big mouthed Radio Blowhards, to work against legislation that would likely benefit you and your kids. Maybe, like the dumb broad at Senator Specter's Event, none of you care about anything other than to get your screaming face on TV. G.Reed

Anonymous said...

FYI, the drug companies are using $millions$ to push Obamacare. I do believe the Messiah is in bed with them too.

Dan S said...

I did read it. I also understand it for instance:
Your deductible for Obamacare is 10% of your annual income. Pg 82 Line 8-19.

Start thinking. Turn off the TV grab some collegiate research papers and READ. I don't listen to the republican nuts, but I also don't listen to a word coming from the Obama and company either.

Health care costs are the problem. It does not cost a nurse 85 bucks to stick your babies arm and give them an MMR, but they charge you over 100 for that. WHY? Its called spreading costs across the system. Medicare and Medicaid currently determine how much they will pay doctors for each procedure. They pay less than the cost of the vaccine in some cases, which jacks the costs up for everyone else.
Why is it 800 bucks to walk in the ER? Because the two illegals in the corner are using the ER to get cold medicine for their son who has the sniffles, and they're not paying a dime. Why is insurance so much? Because they have to charge me the same as the fat man down the road who rides a rascal if the distance is more than 5 feet and who eats a box of twinkies a day. They'll never recoup the costs of taking care of him, so I have to pay part of it. Obama is not fixing the problem, he's fixing a symptom of the problem. All that does is mask the true issue temporarily.

Anonymous said...

I have read most of the actual bill and this thing needs to be killed!

First off, the notion you can keep your insurance if you want to is bogus! Your kids will not have the option, they are forced into this government run plan. They will no longer have the freedom to not have insurance

Second, where I work the average cost of health insurance is 10 - 12 % per employee. When the fed gov takes it over they will impose an 8% tax for companies not providing insurance. The cost savings of dropping health insurance is HUGE so if you have private insurance now, you won't if this massive government take over of your personal health takes place

Anonymous said...

All of you that are saying no to this health care plan have yet to give one alternative. You are so busy hating on Obama for nothing. Call him what you like and while doing that call yourselves the exact same thing. Instead of causing termoil at these town hall meeting trying going home and reading a book, or do something with your no so well mannered children. You sit behind you computers daily and just put out lies, hatred, and complain about everything. If you don't like President Obama then move you a (ss) to another country and give us all a break.

Healthcare Reform is needed NOW!

Anonymous said...

You should probably learn how to spell "turmoil" before you tell others to "go read a book."

Anonymous said...

anony@2:46 It's called a typo. Now you really need to go read a book you idiot!

Anonymous said...

for the liberals that sware this is the best way to reform health care, answer one question for me: if this bill is so great, why did obama and biden vote no on a bill that would require them to enroll in the type of health care they are proposing? they are the ones trying to push this through, but they dont want it for themselves of their families. please explain without using BS political answers, use your words and come up with your own educated response. we will wait

Barry said...

The truth is that the current Health Care plan is trying to fix a symptom without actually making a good diagnosis. The plans as written will temporary mask the disease and and allow it to grow unchecked. This system is diseased because of one thing: the government. The government does not allow interstate competition, the government does not allow individuals any tax advantages or price negotiations, the government does not reimburse at fair rates, the government allows illegals to get care (forcing those that pay to pay more), the government has not mandated universal billing standards (so every payer has different forms) and the government has not enforced its current laws.

Diagnosis: The government is the disease and the symptoms are high costs and restricted coverage. Perhaps, we should get rid of the disease instead of introducing more of it to the system. Then the symptoms will subside.

PS: Anyone who says universal care is great, or government run systems is the way to go should consider going to France or Canada next time they need care. On you way ask the people coming in the other direction to the US to get health care why they are going in the opposite direction.

rod08 said...

I have seen so much commentary, so much rhetoric, but no one is providing specifics as to the CONTENT of the bill. What section(s), are not wanted? Can anyone provide using the "table of content", by section, page, etc and reference why this change is good/not good for the American people? . What is/is not a good change in the bill? Is there reference to one of the large insurers, what changes this bill will have and how it is/is not good for me. Where is the bill does it reference the changes that will be made pto the "co-payments? Is there a change that allows the doctor and not the insurer to determine what is in the best "medical" interest of the patient? Currenlty the insurers make the decison on what coverage a person can have? Are there changes specifically as to the HMO's and how this change affects them? Where in the bill does it reference what the benefits are/are not for a family of four. Currently medical coverage for familes are right up in the ball park with Day Care (about $600 a month), any reference to this? Annually a woman can have mammograms to detect breast cancer, is this changing? how, benefit or not. Currently I have to make 3 different appointment to go to the same clinic, and all doctors are there. I can see my GYN, as I leave my Family doctor. Aetna will not allow you to see more than one doctor on one visit. Any reference to this? Are there limits to how much hospital care a person can have with their current medical coverage? Any reference? Are the rates for coverge, private, HMO, company sponsored changing? If so, what is the benefit/not benefit?


rod08 said...

To J Parsons - you stated there are no pages on these bills. Can you help us US citizens figure out how to read the bills. Be a part of the solution and not a part of the problem. I need your help!!!

Anonymous said...

A common sense alternative to the huge bureaucracy that the federal government wants to create.

Anonymous said...

Pas health care reform. All of you who assume the majority of Americans are against healthcare reform are obviously just talking to your own friends. Everyone I know wants some kind of reform. By the way I have been working non-stop from the time I was 15 ( I'm 37 now). I have paid my taxes every year. I would love for some of them to go towards paying for my health insurance. Right now to insure me, my wife and my 1 year old-we spend $750 a month. That's almost what I spend on my mortgage! We don't smoke and lead healthy lifestyles. I would glady put that in taxes to have a better healthcare system.

And for those downing socialized medicine in other countries; you obviously aren't very well-travelled.

Anonymous said...

Do you "guys" not realize that the Government is not providing you healthcare...YOU will be providing their healthcare for yourself through higher taxes. There is no such thing as "Free" somebody has to pay for it. I just did my montly budget and after buying all you worthless people cars, bailing out the banks, and taking over the auto industy, I have no more money left to give you for healthcare. When did we stop taking care of ourselves, and start waiting for someone else to take care of us. We can not afford this, I can not afford this.

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